Neither evil nor obnoxious
JVL Introduction
We know that JVL is not universally popular in the Labour Party, but to have a constituency chair resign because his members voted to nominate our media officer as a candidate in the National Executive Committee elections came as something of a surprise.
Barnaby Marder, former chair of Richmond Park CLP, posted his resignation letter on Facebook on 21st May with a preamble denouncing JVL as “a thoroughly unprincipled group which excuses, and at times even propagates, antisemitic discourse.” His resignation statement said that JVL has “been a questionable organisation since the day they were launched, and now they are an evil one.” He said he “cannot chair a CLP which collectively thinks that someone with Wimborne-Idrissi’s obnoxious views is suitable to serve on the Party’s NEC.”
Naomi has reached out to Barnaby in an attempt to reassure him that we are neither evil nor obnoxious and his allegations against us are misplaced. A group he founded in October 2018 – Socialists Against Antisemitism – has some useful things to say and we would welcome dialogue with him. But since he has not replied, we are publishing Naomi’s response.
In response to Barnaby Marder
Barnaby Marder has posted an impassioned invective against JVL and against me personally. He presented his post as an explanation for his resignation as Chair of Richmond Park Constituency Labour Party after it voted to nominate me for Labour’s NEC. A response to some of his unfortunate factual inaccuracies follows.
It is regrettable that disagreement between groups of Jews has led some groups to abuse others. Calling JVL an “evil” organisation and labelling my views “obnoxious”, as Barnaby does in his post, are examples of such abuse. We in JVL have always sought a way out of this toxic culture. I hope what I say here will be taken as it is intended – an attempt to find a way to calmly debate our differences.
Barnaby’s post claims that anyone in his CLP who voted for me considered the views of Jews who identify as Zionists as ‘illegitimate’. This is utterly untrue. I would like to ask him what he has seen, in any of JVL’s or my published statements, to justify this remark. JVL’s Statement of Principles does not even take any particular stand on Zionism. That is part of the point of our existence. Unlike the Jewish Labour Movement, we do not require our members to regard Israel as central to their identity. JVL fulfils a need for the many Jews for whom Zionism is not a defining issue.
Barnaby’s post continues with a complaint that JVL excuses or supports antisemitism. Again, this is simply untrue. He makes a passing reference to Ken Livingstone, Chris Williamson and Pete Willsman, as if our opposition to the unjust way they were publicly denounced and hounded is proof that we support antisemites and Holocaust deniers! Has Barnaby actually looked at the mounds of thoughtful material we have written about their cases? Here, for example, is what we posted on our website at the time Ken Livingstone resigned from the party (note he was not expelled, not for antisemitism or anything else). Similarly with Chris Williamson, we looked past the hysteria at the facts of the case. With regard to Pete Willsman, we have been clear that any allegation of antisemitism against him has to be dealt with by due process under the party’s disciplinary procedures. We take it as self-evident that no-one should be condemned in advance by the media. Mention of Peter Gregson is gratuitous and unconnected to any statement by JVL.
Concerning Barnaby’s accusation that JVL called an incident of antisemitic abuse a ‘false flag’, the truth has been distorted. Our tweet – a rapid response to an incident reported on social media – conveyed the message that if it was a false flag it was awful but if it was real it was evil. There was no downplaying of an antisemitic incident.
One further point to note is that JVL as an organisation and I as an individual deplore the use of social media to persecute Labour Party members who have been accused of antisemitism, just as we deplore social media abuse and harassment of anyone. An allegation is merely that – the fact that it has been made is not proof of anything. We have argued robustly and consistently that all allegations must be investigated and judged in a manner that is transparent and fair for both the complainant and the person complained against. Too often, accused members have been judged guilty by association, without concrete evidence being assessed. This is unfortunately what we see in Barnaby’s post.
The post also makes contradictory assertions about the status of Jewish identity. Barnaby says “in most cases you won’t have the faintest idea what it’s been like to be a Jewish Labour Party member in recent years” and that it is up to Jews to define what antisemitic racism is. Yet, in the same breath he asserts that my ethnic origins are “irrelevant”. Both positions cannot be true. Either I and other JVL-supporting Jews in the Labour Party have legitimate views and therefore, by this logic, a right to propose own definitions of antisemitic racism, OR we cannot be regarded as Jews and our views can be discounted. I cannot believe that Barnaby would wish to defend such a dangerous position. See here where it can lead.
Barnaby says Party members need antisemitism training. JVL has argued consistently for an educational, (rather than a training), approach and has actually delivered successful education workshops on antisemitism to CLPs and other organisations for a number of years. We are currently offering education seminars to members and supporters. The JVL website is in itself an educational resource, particularly on matters pertaining to antisemitism and Palestine.
JVL endeavours to be accurate and objective in everything we publish, avoiding simple errors. I must therefore correct the mistake in Barnaby’s post which calls me Vice-Chair of JVL. I am not, I am Media Officer and have been since JVL was founded in July 2017.
JVL has always been willing to debate and discuss with people who have different views from ours. I have no hesitation in inviting Barnaby to meet and talk. Similarly we will be pleased to debate with members of Socialists Against Antisemitism, in private or in public.
Barnaby Marder posted on Facebook, 21st May
The Labour Party has made enormous progress in fighting antisemitism in the last 2 years. However, there is still work to be done, including sadly in my own CLP. My CLP has just voted to nominate Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi to the NEC, and while I don’t dispute the legitimacy of the vote, I regard it as a signal that Jews who decline to be identified as non-Zionists or anti-Zionists aren’t really legitimate in the eyes of those who voted that way.
I have therefore resigned as the Chair with immediate effect. If the effect of this is to open up a few eyes, and to get people to understand once and for all that JVL are not brave principled fighters against Israeli cruelty & aggression, but in fact a thoroughly unprincipled group which excuses, and at times even propagates, antisemitic discourse (so long as, of course, it comes from people identifying as being on the left – magically, if antisemitism comes from other sources JVL are suddenly able to identify & condemn it), then it will be for the good. I would urge anyone who hasn’t already done so to search the Socialists Against Antisemitism Facebook page, and look for posts about JVL.
Some of you will violently disagree with my actions. But in most cases you won’t have the faintest idea what it’s been like to be a Jewish Labour Party member in recent years. You can always press the unfriend button. That’s your prerogative. I will continue to work for the Labour Party – but not in my constituency for the foreseeable future. Here is my statement that I have issued to CLP members.
MY RESIGNATION AS YOUR CLP CHAIR
I am resigning as Chair of Richmond Park CLP with immediate effect. The decision of CLP members to nominate Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi to the NEC of the Party, while I do not dispute it, is effectively a signal from those members who voted in this manner that Jews who refuse to identify as either anti-Zionist or non-Zionist are second-class citizens at best, and racists at worst.
Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi is vice-Chair of Jewish Voice for Labour, and I would submit its dominant figure in many respects. JVL was founded ostensibly as a voice for non-Zionist Jews within the Labour Party. This stated aim is entirely laudable, as they are not catered for well by the Jewish Labour Movement. However, during its brief history, JVL has become far, far more than that. Many people have been either expelled or suspended from the Labour Party for offences relating to antisemitism. These include not just Ken Livingstone, Chris Williamson, Pete Willsman, but also some whose offences have been even graver such as Pete Gregson, whose antisemitic placard outside the 2017 Labour Party conference was roundly condemned by the then Party leader Jeremy Corbyn (and got him expelled not just from the Labour Party but from his trade union also). Not even on one occasion has JVL supported what in almost every case, in my view, has been justified disciplinary action. Some of those expelled have even been Holocaust deniers or shared Nazi content on their social media. Wimborne-Idrissi herself was suspended, then subsequently readmitted with a warning as to her behaviour. While her own social media has been fairly quiet since then, JVL have escalated their behaviour considerably. Last year, just to give one example, a car was driven through Golders Green and 4 young men shouted “Death to the Jews! Rape their daughters!”. The response of JVL’s official social media was to speculate that it might have been a false flag incident. This was utterly disgraceful. (4 people have since been arrested and charged in relation to the incident). JVL does still contain some members whose record is perfectly respectable, as it always has, but such people are not in a leading role within the organisation.
I have attempted, through Socialists Against Antisemitism, to warn Labour Party members about the problematic nature of JVL. Unfortunately, it is clear that a number of CLP members only hear what they want to hear, and think that they are just critics of Israel’s sometimes appalling policies and practices. This, sadly, is just not the case. They have been a questionable organisation since the day they were launched, and now they are an evil one. I cannot chair a CLP which collectively thinks that someone with Wimborne-Idrissi’s obnoxious views is suitable to serve on the Party’s NEC.
It is abundantly clear that some of those who told us all that we need anti-racism training then decided that it was acceptable to vote for Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi. It is my submission that specific antisemitism training as well as anti-racism training is necessary, although I have serious doubts that such training would be taken on board by most of those who most need it.
It is for Jews as a people to define racism against ourselves, just as it is for members of other ethnic minorities. If you decide to greet this resignation statement with the reply “she isn’t antisemitic, she’s only anti-Zionist”, think again. Her own ethnic origins are irrelevant. Just as Margaret Thatcher implemented misogynistic policies, and just as Priti Patel implements policies which blatantly discriminate against people of Indian and other BAME heritages, so JVL’s leadership and many (though not all) of their members propagate antisemitic discourse, thinly disguised as anti-Zionism. It is no accident that many anti-Zionist Jews who can tell the difference between anti-Zionism and antisemitism have left JVL in sadness, or even disgust. I am not calling for proscription of JVL, but the problematic nature of their leadership and official line as expressed in statements and on social media is there for any discerning person to see. It is extremely sad that there are people in the CLP who are unable to see just how problematic they are.
It has been a privilege to serve as CLP Chair since my election in February 2021, and it is with enormous sadness that I now resign. I will remain an active member of the Labour Party, but my activity will be outside this constituency until such time as I feel that I am no longer unwelcome, as this decision makes it clear that I am.
Sincerely
Barnaby Marder
Former Chair, Richmond Park CLP
I wonder if Barnaby Marder has ever asked himself why it is that the vast majority of people in the LP who have been accused of anti-semitism – including Jeremy Corbyn – have never been reported to the police for their alleged anti-semitism – ie asked himself why it is that none of the groups and organisations and individuals accusing the likes of Ken and Chris and Jackie etc of anti-semitism never reported them to the police.
It doesn’t make sense of course they they WOULDN’T do so if they REALLY believed they WERE guilty of anti-semitism.
NB Then there’s all the Jewish members – and others – who have been suspended under Starmer/Evans for alleged anti-semitism…… Were a single one of them reported to the police by the LP? No, of course they weren’t, and for the obvious reason!
Far too conciliatory really – there is no good faith on Barnaby Marder’s side if you have had the misfortune to tune into his Socialists Against Antisemitism page, which is a thinly disguised witch hunt against the left. The inclusion of the word ‘socialism’ demands a report to trading standards.
This is just another example of right vs left and weaponisation of antisemitism, but it’s pretty extreme on his part to single out the ‘wrong sort of Jew’ and throw his toys out of the pram for an NEC post. After all, a lot of CLPs will have probably nominated people on the left and right – my CLP nominated Naomi and Luke Akehurst – did the left execs resign? No they didn’t.
I do disagree with Naomi that JVL is neutral about Zionism – this is a defining issue for socialism and Marder is clear this is the touchstone – “many (though not all) of their members propagate antisemitic discourse, thinly disguised as anti-Zionism”.
If Israel were a peaceful secular state (which many of us hope for one day) this conflict between left and right in Labour would be laid bare for what it really is.
People like Marder are tedious sectarians and bigots with no sense of unity whatsoever.
Their rightful place is with Johnson’s mob.
I just did a search re barnaby marder and, as such, came across an article by him (from August 2020) on a website called Jewth!nk, which I’ve not come across before. Anyway, here’s a passage from his article:
Nevertheless, a great deal of progress has been made. In addition to the suspensions and expulsions of some of the worst offenders (and I am quietly confident that more of these are to follow in the very near future), many of the party’s most antisemitically-inclined members are now leaving the party of their own accord, which I greatly welcome. Of course, not everyone leaving the party has a bad record on antisemitism, far from it, but there is little doubt that some of the worst offenders are jumping before they are pushed. Although Steve Walker of Skwawkbox and Ken Loach still remain, other well-known figures of the conspiracist left, such as ‘Asa’ Winstanley, Jackie Walker, Pete Willsman, Chris Williamson, Tony Greenstein and Ken Livingstone, have either been suspended pending likely expulsion, have resigned or been expelled.
Yes, and quite right TOO, and especially that Ken Livingstone, who said that Hitler was a Zionist. And there’s no doubt whatsoever that it’s true, because on the day Ken Livingstone was suspended, the Daily Mail alone mentions it three times in an article (and then AGAIN at the beginning of an article that followed on directly afterwards on its website).
Thank heavens for our fearless media who stand up to the anti-semites, along with people like Barnaby.
PS And Ken Livingstone also alluded to an historical fact, and you can’t get much more antisemitically-inclined than THAT!
I have a Jewish surname but was not born Jewish. Having experienced anti-semitism after I married, I know the difference between being Jewish and not being Jewish. My experience is nothing like what Barnaby says in his resignation letter – tried to explain the difference to him, but he wouldn’t listen. Thanks to Naomi and colleagues in JVL, they understand what antisemitism is really like for ordinary people like myself.
I wonder if Ken – in response to Vanessa Feltz bringing up Hitler – had said ‘Well, lets not forget that the Nazis and the German Zionists came to an agreement in 1933 after three months of negotiations whereby Jews in Germany could emigrate to Palestine’, what the reaction would have been? THAT, of course, is all he meant, and no-one on this planet who knows even the tiniest bit about the Nazis persecution of the Jews during the 1930s and then the Holocaust, could possibly think that Ken was speaking generally when he said that Hitler was supporting Zionism. Ken first specifically alluded to The Haavara Agreement, and then, in respect of the agreement, said that Hitler was supporting Zionism. What Ken DIDN’T say, is that Hitler supported Zionism.
Anyway, to answer my own question, I think we can be 100% certain that HOWEVER Ken had said it, he would STILL have been fraudulently accused of being a Hitler apologist and an anti-semite and of perverting history and, as such, been fraudulently vilified and demonised.
So, I’ve just been on a little trip on the internet which led me to a link in a comment (on the Electronic Intifada’s website) to a book by Lenni Brenner on amazon entitled ’51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis’, and the first review in particular convinced me that the book is well worth checking out. But it’s a bit tooo long to include in this post, so here’s a much shorter one:
This book is astonishing. It seems as though Ken Livingstone’s arguments are based on fact and his opponents are relying on hot air. Ken’s opponents have made no attempt to gainsay this evidence. They have just labelled it “anti-semitic” which is absurd. Ken Livingstone has been an opponent of racism all his political life. Zionism is one of the forms of racism he has opposed.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/51-Documents-Lenni-Brenner/dp/1569804338/ref=sr_1_1
If JVL is so evil, unprincipled and antisemitic, then presumably Barnaby Marder will be able to point to at least one article on the JVL website displaying those qualities. I’ve never seen such an article myself; indeed, I find this website one of the few islands of sanity on the Internet.
I would unreservedly condemn the four people who shouted “Death to the Jews! Rape their daughters!”. And they have rightly been arrested.
But I just wonder if Barnaby Marder has ever condemned the large number of Israeli Jewish extremists who roam around Palestinian areas of Jerusalem shouting “Death to Arabs” ?
What else do you expect, from a daily fail reader, good riddance to Barnaby Marder, i just wish starmer would follow suit.
‘But in most cases you won’t have the faintest idea what it’s been like to be a Jewish Labour Party member in recent years.’
Different people have different experiences. Most members of JVL are both Jewish and members of the Labour Party, and it’s a safe bet that the climate of hostility they have faced since Starmer became leader is unlike anything they will have experienced during Corbyn’s leadership. Perhaps Marder could share the traumatizing events that have caused him to claim a different history. My own experience is that Labour under Corbyn was a welcoming and inclusive place for all ethnicities. He is much missed.
As regards one’s individual experience of antisemitism, I don’t doubt that my late mother, whose parents were murdered in the Holocaust, would have been able to enlighten Marder as to its nature and the terrible impact it can have on the life of an an individual and an entire family.
I posted this on Barnaby’s timeline. It’s all that needs to be said
This is a particularly disgraceful and dishonest post. Keir Starmer isn’t the slightest bit interested in fighting racism, inc. antisemitism. That much is clear from his dismissive comments about Black Lives Matter. If Starmer was at all interested in opposing antisemitism then how come Jewish members are 5 times more likely to be expelled today than non-Jews.
It was ALWAYS about anti-Zionism and support for the Palestinians. But not only that. It was the most convenient pretext for attacking Corbyn. Why else would some of the most racist members of the LP adopt ‘antisemitism’ as their banner? Why would John Mann, who was questioned about his anti-Roma/Gypsy pamphlet which targeted them as a social nuisance and who defended racist ex-MP Phil Woolas be so exercised about antisemitism?
Why would the Daily Mail and even Boris Johnson, someone who combines support for Israel with antisemitism (see his novel 72 Virgins) take this up?
No Barnaby you know it’s not about antisemitism. It is about using the history and memory of antisemitism to defend a state that is so clearly and obviously an apartheid state, as every human rights organisation from Btselelm to Amnesty has found.
What is the first defence against criticis of Israel? Cries of ‘antisemitism’. Yet Israel is a state where, as we saw with Jerusalem Day on May 29, we have thousands of Jewish settlers, aided by the Police, rampaging through East Jerusalem shouting ‘death to the Arabs’ just as in Germany and Poland they used to shout ‘Death to the Jews.’
You and the Labour Right are intellectually dishonest and impoverished. You have nothing to say about antisemitism as it actually exists (a marginal prejudice in Britain). Your real target is socialists.
https://www.theguardian.com/…/jewish-woman-accused…
Jewish Voice for Labour is the most ethical and balanced organisation I have ever been in. JVL is extremely highly principle. In Britain of today, we have a Prime Minister and a Leader of the Opposition who tell it how it suits them. Most establishment politicians are disingenuous, false and far from truthful. JVL is wholly honest in all ways. Jewish Voice for Labour has come to me through the shipwreck of the re-Conservatised Labour Party. JVL is my political future. Thank you, JVL. I love you. Excuse my emotion.
In a recent survey the majority of Labour members felt, presumably from their own experience, that Labour’s antisemitism had been exaggerated or was not as prevalent as often claimed.
Another survey confirmed this, finding on average voters thought 34% of Labour members had been taken through the antisemitism complaints procedure, when the actual figure was 0.06%.
Such exaggerated voter perceptions were obviously a consequence of repeated media claims from anti-Corbyn PLP members and pro-Israel groups, saying things like Labour was a ‘cess-pit of antisemitism’.
Whilst Barnaby, like the JLM Panorama witnesses, may indeed claim to have suffered a lot of such antisemitism, he should not extrapolate his own personal experience to that of most Jewish members.
The leaked Labour report data suggest that over 2-3 years only around 30 complaints of antisemitic abuse during Labour Party meetings were lodged. There are about 20 000 meetings held each year.
So whilst we must always fight antisemitism in our own ranks, JVL we’re well justified in trying to bring a focus of evidence and truth to the wild exaggerations, which were obviously used to undermine the Labour Party, especially the Left, and to silence legitimate criticism of Israel’s illegal treatment of Palestinians. At the same time this misinformation must have terrified many British Jewish people.
To my knowledge JVL has always condemned and fought against antisemitism, but also the weaponising of false allegations which undermine the genuine fight.
Naomi is one of the most principled and honest candidates I know, and I find it appalling that Barnaby attempts, with no credible evidence, to drag her good name through the mud. In that, I hope he fails, and if acting in good faith that he will apologise for his ignorance.
Well said, Angus; I wholly support both your points.
To Alan Howard. Edwin Black, a Jewish historian has also written more than one book “The Haavara Agreement ” was , I think published before Lennie Brenner. Livingston’s remark was describing a historical fact but it seems that it is possible to label some statements as “antisemitic” even when they are true. Rebecca long Bailey was excluded from the Labour party for stating the verifiable actuality of the training of US security services in Israel
How does Barnaby feel about the fact Amnesty , the UN , Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela have criticised Israel?
Does he even know the truth about the land clearance and the now homeless Palestinisns..
He’s confusing ANTIZIONISM with antisemitism..
If it is ok to say bullying, racism , etc are to be epistemically privileged , analagous to the authority of a subject claiming to feel pain, perhaps it is also offensive to the autonomy of an ethical agent to be defined as self-hating by an external agent or institution.
The decision to resign does not make it clear that B Marder is made unwelcome , except by B Marder . True , the toxicity of internal deliberations are not apparent to outsiders: self- criticism and self-hatred are not perhaps emotionally distinct, but rationally and ethically they can be political and emotional weapons . Where agreement is lacking about a shared attainable objective, there is a breakdown of community,ethics,and communication. It is vital in politics to define shared attainable objectives. Totalities are notoriously difficult to share.
It is ironic that Marder said “Some of you will violently disagree with my actions” and then refers to Pete Gregson who was violently attacked by Zionists for displaying a Carlos Latuff cartoon of Netanyahu attacking Jeremy Corbyn which was in no way antisemitic, even though certain spineless individuals in the LP declared it to be so. It has been my experience that much of the violence has come from Zionists, in particular, those in Palestine who almost daily are killing Palestinians. Marder is typical of those who have a blind spot when it comes to seeing from where the real violence eminates.
Good luck to Naomi, a nicer person you could not meet.
It would be interesting to know WHEN Ken was invited to appear on the Daily Politics. Was it PRIOR to the radio interview with Vanessa Feltz, or just afterwards. Anyway, I didn’t listen to the interview with VF (or know that it was on), and I wasn’t in the habit of watching the Daily Politics because I have a serious aversion to Andrew Neil. But like just about everyone in the country, I did see the clip on the news of Ken being verbally attacked by John Mann on his way into the studios.
And I think we can safely assume that John Mann didn’t just happen to arrive at the same time as Ken…….
Anyway, astonishing as it may seem (although it may very well have something to do with my aversion), I have NEVER, until an hour or so ago, thought to check on youtube to see if the DP interview is on there. And so I did a search, and it IS, and there are in fact several videos showing different parts of the interview, two of which overlap. So I had no choice, and forced myself to watch them, but, as I knew would be the case, Neil was full-on with his aggressive style (which he of course does deliberately knowing that it discombobulates the target), and very much controlling it all. It would probably take several thousand words to relate everything Neil did or said (for example, that Naz Shah had – in a post – spoken ‘of the forcible removal of Israeli Jews to the States’), so I WON’T go there. Anyway, here are links to all three videos, the first two of which overlap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XeDECluDCg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY5-OianGnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sBsVOrh3yA
And apologies for so many posts……
The lowest level of Racism against Jews is to accuse Jews themselves of antisemitism
Yair Lapid
Israeli Foreign Minister
I am shocked, but not at all surprised at this disgraceful attack on Naomi. Please know Naomi, you have all the support of not only JVL members.
Proud to say that I nominated Naomi for the NEC, in my Kensington CLP. Happy to say that the CLP approved her name and so she is backed by Kensington.
‘Thank heavens for our fearless media who stand up to the anti-Semites’. Anyone who either believes or approves of that statement either has an incredibly poor grasp of reality or a truly perverse social agenda. It is a self evident truth that Jeremy Corbyn is a principled anti-racist but our fearless right wing media have used anti-Semitism as a weapon to eliminate Socialism. A clue to this ideological stance was provided by chief rabbi Ephraim Mirvis in his AIPAC address.
Zionism is racism by definition. It has adopted an aggressive policy of social cleansing supported by its Nation State Laws which must be kept out of any MSM debate. Do not apologise or attempt concilliation with this man who has no wish to find a route to peace in Palestine.
I find this quite distressing. I knew Barnaby as a teenager – we did A-level Latin and Greek together – and he was a very decent sort. To judge from his recent posts, he is more concerned than many (eg in LAAS) to be fair-minded – and yet his judgement of Naomi and of JVL is simply bonkers.
I’m going to see “The Crucible” at the National in the autumn (which I’ve never seen before) because I want to understand how witch-hunts work. Anyone who has seen the brilliant Danish film “The Hunt” will know that that offers some insight as well. My impression is that, while some of the “hunters” are blinded by zealotry and some merely act in bad faith, seeking some personal or factional advantage, there are others who, having in good faith taken a wrong turning early on (misinterpreting something, or believing a false account of something, for example), find themselves led inexorably to ever wilder and wilder conclusions. And, as Mark Twain observed, it is easier to deceive people than to persuade them that they have been deceived.
oh dear…Solomon needed perhaps????
It is interesting that this man says that people wanting to understand JVL should read his own organisation’s posts about them. If you really want to understand someone it is generally better to look at what they say themselves rather than what other people say about them. Evidently this writer suspects that for most readers looking at JVL’s website or its publications would not confirm his allegations
I’m always puzzled by the extent to which those who continue to support Israel’s right to self-determinationas an apartheid state contrive to avoid the evidence that would make their denials insupportable. Do they read books like The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine or websites like Palestine Remembered in a state of blind fury or do they simply avert their eyes from anything that doesn’t support their world view? It’s no doubt very painful to have one’s deeply held opinions challenged in public debate, but if Marber was truly convinced of the rightness of his case wouldn’t he be prepared to defend it to the hilt?
But arguing about Israel, particularly on Twitter, has become largely pointless: you invariably hear the same routine points being made and have to rebut with the same routine responses. What we need to see from Israel is some real willingness to engage with its critics. A good start might be for it to concede that Shireen Abu Akleh was shot by an Israeli sniper and for the police to stop protecting violent settlers and Zionist thugs who chant racist slogans and hammer on Palestinian shop-fronts during the Flag March. Some of the worst offenders could even be prosecuted, and depending on the evidence, found guilty and punished. After that it could even start dismantling the aparatus of apartheid and allow free movement between Israel and Gaza. Unfortunately I don’t expect this or anything like it to happen in my lifetime, but I live in hope.
Kuhnberg is ‘puzzled by the extent to which those who continue to support Israel’s right to self-determination as an apartheid state contrive to avoid the evidence … “. This has puzzled me for a long time.
I know various people who profess to be socialists, often serve in local government, campaign for social justice, can often be genuinely anti-capitalist etc, but still support a generally Zionist line of argument and believe that Arabs are hate-inspired antagonists. Some of these hard-working socialists have done a bit of kibbutz time back in the day.
Can anyone explain the brainwashing/indoctrination, paranoia-inducing process? Does anyone genuinely believe that AI, HRW, Desmond Tutu et al are/were anti-semitic?